ASC Webinar Transcripts

Presented on Wednesday October 18, 2017

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Last updated 11/06/2017

 

Visual: Moving title slides including title of presentation and presenters

Audio: Instrumental Music

Visual: Slide changes to “Does this sound like you?” and includes phrases like “I don’t deserve success” in comment bubbles.

Audio: Kim: So, Christy and I kind of want to make this presentation informal, so feel free to write in the chat your experiences about, you know, if you have ever experienced any of these thoughts or feelings and let us know and, you know, we can hopefully work together and help each other. Christy, is there anything that you'd like to add?

Audio: Christy: Yeah. Thanks, Kim. I just want to sort of reiterate what Kim was saying. You know, we really hope that this will be a nice conversation with you tonight. I know it's probably been a long day for many of you. It's late, if you're on the east coast. Which is where I'm at. So, we know it's been a long day for you, but we hope this can be a nice conversation. So please do interact in the chat. We are not that formal of presenters so we will stop and chat with you about things that you mention in the chat. So feel free to do that. And, you know, before we move into research and the tips and things that Kim mentioned, I just want to share a little bit about where this interest came from because not a lot of people have heard this term "the imposter syndrome" before. And, so, this is something that's really sort of special to me.

During our introductions, you know, Shawn mentioned that I've been here a few years. I actually was also a Walden student. I did my master's and my PhD here. [ phone ringing ] And I entered with just my bachelor's degree. And, so, I entered a PhD program as the bridge program. And I went to my first residency in Chicago. And in the first session, it was sort of, you know, everyone's making introductions and sharing a little bit about them, about themselves and their experiences, and I realized I was surrounded by people who already had graduate degrees. Many of them had years of experience in their field, applied experiences. And some of them were even published authors. and I left that first session thinking, oh, my gosh I don't belong here, what am I doing, like, you know, I am nowhere near qualified as everyone else who was here. And, so, it was a very strange experience for me. And I met a peer at that session, and after returning home, she sent me an article on the imposter syndrome. And it sort of just led me down this path. This is one of my big areas of interest. I actually did my dissertation on this. And, so, it's just something that's, I think, really interesting and doctoral students definitely experience this. It's incredibly common. And I think more than anything else in this session tonight, I really hope that all of you walk away knowing that this is a common experience and you're definitely not alone if you're feeling this way. So... Kim, I went on a little while. Do you want to add anything there?

Audio: Kim: No, that's fine. I also had the same experience in my first residency. I remember sitting in the cohort group, listening to everybody talk about where they are, what they're doing, I was thinking, oh, no, I don't think I belong here. So I totally get it.

Audio: Christy: I just wanted to comment a couple things. Nadine, congratulations on your oral defense this Friday. That's very amazing. So congratulations. Valamere, I wanted to mention, coping with this feeling, if you're an older student should have certain experiences and skill set, you know, I think it's hard to sort of say that you should have certain things. Like I always look at learners as individuals and we all have our own experiences, our own strengths and our own areas where we need to, you know, develop a little bit further and, so, it's a little bit difficult, you know, to sort of say that you should have certain things. But as far as coping goes, we'll give you some tips and some strategies to deal with that a little bit later tonight. But thank you for sharing with us.

Audio: Kim: All right. So, if we're ready to move forward, we can go ahead and jump into some research.

Visual: Slide changes to “The Imposter Syndrome” that includes information about the imposter syndrome including the characterization and the correlations.

Audio: Kim: and feel free to keep some comments going in there. So, many of you are doctoral students, and, so, we all know you love research. So, we thought it would be helpful to include some research about the imposter syndrome, what this is all about. and, so, the definition of imposter syndrome is an internal experience of intellectual phoniness in individuals who are successful but unable to internalize that success. This was first described back in 1978 by Clance and Imes following their clinical work with about 150 successful women. and when working with these women, they really noticed a pattern. You know, again, these women were successful, but they weren't able to internalize those successes. They didn't really own them. They didn't, you know, say, I did this or anything like that. They tended to attribute that success to outside things, like luck or someone else making a mistake.

And, so, that was sort of the beginning of this area. I do want to emphasize, you know, the early research really focused on women and the thought was that this was an experience that women only had. But more current research, you know, and literature has shown that it's equal, men and women both experience this at very similar rates. So, it is equal.

And there are some key patterns that researchers have found. So, imposters tend to get stuck in what's called sort of this negative imposter cycle. And we're going talk about that here in a little bit. We'll talk about what that cycle is. We'll also talk about the over-preparation part. And we'll talk about another pattern where these individuals tend to attribute success to external sources as opposed to taking credit for their own work. And then there's this constant fear of discovery. So these individuals are constantly, you know, worried that people are going to all of a sudden realize that they're not nearly as competent as what people thought that they were. And there's a lot of fear attached to that. They've also found some clear and consistent connections between the imposter syndrome and anxiety, also perfectionism and also sort of an interesting one, the self-handicapping behaviors. So we're going to talk about all those here in a little bit. Trying to just scan the chat here. Okay.

Audio: Kim: Christy?

Audio: Christy: Go ahead.

Visual: Slide changes to “Imposters are…” and includes the types of people who might feel like imposters, like those that perfectionists and struggle with internalizing success.

Audio: Kim: There was a question, an interesting question, Enrico had asked, what's the other extreme to the imposter syndrome? That's really interesting.

Audio: Christy: Yeah, that is an interesting question. Off the top of my head, I'm not quite sure because imposterism is pretty interesting and complex so let me think on that a little bit as we go through. I don't have an initial answer for that.

Audio: Kim: Sounds good.

Audio: Christy: I know that was a nonanswer. When something pops into my head.

Audio: Kim: I didn't know how to answer that. It's very interesting, opposite, I know anxiety and stress are a big part of it. I don't know, feeling overqualified or an ego type of thing, maybe an overego.

Audio: Christy: Okay. So, let's move into who our imposters are. So we do see a general pattern of characteristics. First, these individuals really struggle with accepting praise. And, so, typically imposters will view praise as sort of an indication that they've fooled everyone again. It's just validation that they're able to fool everyone around them. And, so, praise is very difficult for them.

Next we see them struggle with internalizing success, and what I mean by that is that when they succeed, they don't say, wow, I'm awesome, right, or I did a great job. Instead, they attribute it to things like luck. Or some kind of mistake from someone else. And, so, a common one we would see is, you know, if you get an "A" on a really big paper, for instance, and you're an imposter, you might think, well, there's no way that, you know, that instructor read that entire paper. There's just no way. Right? So you attribute it to another factor besides you just being a good writer and doing good research. We attribute it to something else. Again, we see that fear of discovery, that's going to be a common pattern.

And we see a pattern of overworking and also perfectionism. Imposters really feel the need to work and work and then work some more. and they really want to make things perfect because, again, they really worry that they're going to be found as a fraud and, so, they need to put in more and more work and do just a little bit more preparing to feel okay, right, to submit it.

So, again, there's a lot of underlying anxiety to that that's pushing them to just put a lot more time into things than maybe other people would. I can tell you from my own experience as a student, I really struggled -- it's sort of ironic because what I do now is I teach writing workshops and, so, writing is a strength for me. But as a student, I actually -- that was the area I was really stressed about and, so, you know in discussion boards, you're constantly writing and I would stress about everything I wrote in the discussion board, even, you know, the simple little peer responses or anything, I really struggled. I would spend just tons of time, you know, writing, rewriting them, starting over, fixing it. And, so, that was sort of a pattern that I fell into. But that's definitely that pattern of overworking and perfectionism. We also see the imposter cycle, we're actually going to talk about that here in a minute and we'll sort of go through the whole cycle. But I saw a really great question from Enrico about could an instructor suffer from imposter syndrome? and the answer to that is, absolutely. There's actually a really good article out there about imposter syndrome in academics. And, so, it's very common. In faculty, especially when they don't yet have tenure, we see it. Again, it's linked to anxiety and stress. and, so, we do see that pattern in academia as well. Kim, is there anything you want to add to this?

Audio: Kim: No. No. You sound great. There was another question in here, the imposter syndrome, a characteristic would be low self-esteem? Which I think would be part of it, absolutely.

Audio: Christy: Absolutely. There's a lot of self-doubt, low self-esteem, yup. Absolutely. Yup, Evelyn, perfectionist, too. And it can be overwhelming and as you're probably seeing, and I see a lot of people already saying that you are experiencing this, you know, again, you're not alone, but you already know that this is not a pleasant experience by any means. But there are ways to manage it that we'll talk about. So let's look at what I think is a pretty powerful quote. I love this one. And it's from Sheryl Sandberg, if you're not familiar with her, she's a COO of Facebook. She's held some other high-level positions at companies, like Google. So, she's a very successful individual. But she really sums up this experience, I think, really well, you know, with this quote. and, so, I'm going to go ahead and just read it in case anyone's having trouble reading it.

It says, “every time I was call on in class, I was sure that I was about to embarrass myself. Every time I took a test, I was sure that it had gone badly. And every time I didn't embarrass myself, or even excelled, I believed that I had fooled everyone yet again. And one day soon, the jig would be up.”

I think that that just sort of captures this entire experience so well. Do any of you feel that way as you hear that quote? And as you're sort of typing, Nadine, to answer your question, does it tend to be global or compartmentalized, which I can't say this late in the day? It can be both. So, for some of us, it's sort of this global experience that we experience across the board. For many people, though, it's more connected to the individual tasks. What I mean by that, when you're presented with something new a lot, like a new expectation, you can see it if you've never experienced it before, if there's something new you're given, like a new task or writing the dissertation, for instance, something you've never done before, we can see those feelings crop up. So, I read an article about 70% of people will experience this at least once during their lifetime. So, it can be connected to just single events or single expectations. So I hope that answers that question. Go ahead, Kim.

Audio: Kim: There was something interesting, Dianna had wrote that she doesn't tell many people she's in a PhD program because it adds more pressure. and I wrote back to her that I always call my dissertation a research project, to downplay it. Because I don't want people to think, you know -- and for myself, think oh, it's such a huge thing that I'm doing because of all the pressure. So I totally understand that.

Audio: Christy: Yeah. It's an excellent point. And Enrico, you asked a question, is it fake modesty? No, you know, these individuals truly do not feel like they are good enough for these things. So they're not -- they're not doing it to try to just get that fake modesty sort of approach. Kim, did I miss anything there?

Audio: Kim: I think you got it.

Visual: Slide changes to “The Imposter Cycle” and displays a flow chart on the imposter syndrome.

Audio: Christy: All right, great. So let's go ahead and move into that cycle. and I bet, I mean, there's so many of you already commenting that you experience this and, so, this is probably going to be really familiar to you. And, so, we mentioned a couple times that, you know, there's this cycle that imposters get stuck in. So we're just going to sort of chat through what this cycle is like. And, so, it begins with some sort of achievement-related task. So, things like writing a paper or giving a presentation, all of those things. And, so, imposters experience a lot of anxiety. We've already sort of established that. So they have a lot of anxiety-related symptoms. and a lot of self-doubt, a lot of worry. and they respond to those feelings by overpreparing or initial procrastination followed by sort of this frenzied preparation.

Okay. and I will say that this is absolutely me, and, Kim, feel free to chime in here. But I'm the initial procrastinator followed by that frenzied sort of preparation approach. So, I typically procrastinate for a while, leading up to a deadline, and then I'm the person who's working like endless hours all day, all night sort of thing to try to make it perfect and get it all done. I know others are different. Kim tends to be the overpreparer. Kim, I'm sorry to speak for you, but I know that about you.

Audio: Kim: Yeah.

Audio: Christy: Just always putting in extra time and extra hours. So, after you sort of go through those feelings, you know, after you complete the task, there's sort of this initial sense of relief, you know, it's over, but that doesn't last for imposters. It's not a persistent sort of relief feeling. Imposters might even receive that positive feedback and then they ignore it. and, so, some of you might relate to this. I know I do. But you'll get comments from folks, right. So, you know, for instance, if someone tells me, hey, you did a really nice job with that presentation, I will likely say something to myself along the lines of, well, you know, they were just being nice to me, or they're my friend, or my colleague, they're just being nice. You know, students might say things like, you know, it's only because I worked 12 hours on it that it went well, or it was just luck. And, so, we sort of brush off that positive feedback.

Again, we don't internalize it and allow us to sort of own it. And, so, then we end up having some more anxiety and then the cycle begins again the next time we're given a task. And, so, you just get stuck in this loop. And I see lots of people saying, you know, this is me. You know, this is very common. And this is sort of a key characteristic, a key pattern that we see with this cycle. So, how many of you have experienced this in your course work? Kim, do you want to add as people take a minute to chat?

Audio: Kim: I see something interesting in the chat, Nadine had wrote that, she said, did you find any relation between imposter syndrome and critical inner voice? Which when I think of critical inner voice, I think of anxiety and depression. I know anxiety is a big component. So, yeah, that could possibly be part of that.

Audio: Christy: Yeah, and there's sort of that, you know, worry. and it primarily centers around not being good enough, it's not going to be good enough if I do this. So, it's very much connected to that anxiety and that worry that you're just not competent. So that's sort of what that inner voice would be like, I would say, for an imposter.

Audio: Kim: the self-doubt again, absolutely.

Audio: Christy: I see lots of yeses. So, again, you're definitely not alone here. and, so, we've talked a lot about some of the background. So I'm going to go ahead and pass things to Kim -- I've always talked a lot -- so I'm going to give Kim a chance here. She's going to talk a little bit about how this impacts you as students.

Visual: Slide changes to “ Impact on Students” and includes an animated slide that adds words as Kim addresses them.

Audio: Kim: Yeah. So, what we had found in the research as far as how the imposter syndrome impacts students, well, stress is definitely part of it. Anxiety. A lack of satisfaction in your work. and then, of course, reduced engagement. So, you kind of stop or you kind of -- that could also be a part of procrastination. But these -- all these factors here, I mean, they're also part of just being a graduate student, you know, the stress, the anxiety, and then sometimes because of the stress and anxiety, you feel a lack of satisfaction about what you're doing. And then because of that, you might kind of take a step back and kind of just not want to dive in to your work.

So, you guys have done such a great job chatting, so probably not going to have a problem talking about this, but think about this. These factors, how many of you have experienced these factors? and see if, you know, if it has even led to maybe feeling, like, a lack of overall well-being for you because of feeling these factors. I know in the research it does show that symptoms of stress and anxiety have been linked to serious emotional stress and psychosomatic problems in graduate students so that does eventually affect your over overall well-being and also trying to find strategies for coping, a lot of graduate students are so busy with their work, they don't take time to -- for self-care, they don't take time to learn how to cope. So it's so important. And we want to also look at, you know, how these factors impact your academic progress. And also how it impacts exploring your passion for learning. Most students that have been as far along as the doctoral degree usually are doing it because they have a love of learning, they want to learn more, they want to be instructors, they want to pass on what they've learned to others. So, feel free to chat about this as well. And we're interested in your thoughts and ideas about these factors.

Audio: Christy: Yeah, Kim, I'm just going to chime in as folks are typing, too. You know, I think -- I put in the chat, you know, we know from research that high levels of stress and anxiety negatively impacts the learning process, right? You don't learn as well. And, so, that's going to impact you as a student. If you're in your course work leading up to your dissertation, you know, you need to build those skills as you go. And if you're stressed out, for instance, in your statistics course, that's going to reduce your ability to learn those skills and those abilities. So that's definitely a negative impact.

And then Kim was really stressing that focus of the lack of satisfaction, you know, and reduced engagement. I think that those are sort of the saddest part of this experience, I would say is, that, you know, you're doing something fantastic. Not everyone can do a doctoral program and you're doing it. And you should be able to get some enjoyment and satisfaction. Yes, there's stress, yes, it's difficult. But you should be able to enjoy some of that. So hopefully we can give you some good tips to help tonight.

Visual: Slide changes to “Tips to Battle the Imposter” and includes an animated slide that adds bullet points as Kim discusses them.

Audio: Kim: So let's go over some tips to battle the imposter syndrome. Well, what you're doing here is perfect. You're acknowledging it, you're discussing it amongst your peers. Try to talk about your thoughts. Maybe seek out somebody in your course, in your classroom that you can kind of feel comfortable with, maybe that you're doing the same thing or you feel -- in your dissertation or from reading their posts, you're, like, I understand this person, I like this person, reach out, send an e-mail, discuss how you're feeling, look for a mentor, perhaps another student that has already graduated from Walden, has gotten their doctoral degree and is now teaching, they're doing something that maybe you'd like to do. Definitely reach out. That's the best thing to do is just -- and talk about your feelings and what you're going through. Don't hold it inside.

Also, too, look at the big picture of things. You are more than one assignment. You're more than just this one dissertation. There's so much more out there that is going to be coming from you. And, so, know that. So, if you are having a really hard time with what you're working on in school, and it's making you feel like you're an imposter and you're getting these stress and anxiety symptoms and you're stopping your working and you can't move forward, you're thinking of dropping out, you just feel like you're not worthy of this, this, too, shall pass. You've gotten as far as you have now, you're definitely going to be able to move forward. So remember that.

And while you're remembering that, take some chances. Look for some conferences that you can possibly attend, maybe do a poster-kind of presentation, nothing major, in your career, look for promotions. I know from my personal experience, I never thought that -- I never think that I'm a good writer, I always stress about my dissertation, it's taking me forever, there's many hurdles and I had an opportunity to write a book chapter. And I never thought I would ever ever be able to do something like this. and I thought about it, I wrote the proposal, and then when the editor got back to me, and sent me an e-mail, she's, like, I'd love to talk about your proposal, I actually didn't want to e-mail her back right away, I thought, oh, my God, this is never going to happen. She's going to tear it up. And it turned out it was fantastic and now I'll be published this fall. So I took that chance. So even if you do something once a year, because I know it's going to cause stress, I know it's going to cause anxiety but if you try just once a year, you might be really happy and excited and also my experience with writing that proposal and then writing the chapter and now that I'm getting published, that helped boost my own confidence and my own self-doubt that I could actually do this dissertation. And all of a sudden, I started flying through my dissertation, so it's really something. So take those chances.

Audio: Christy: Yeah, Kim, thanks for sharing your own little story with us about that. I think that taking those chances is such an important thing here. You know, as imposters we tend to avoid those types of things because it's another evaluative situation which is going to increase our anxiety, right? We don't want that. But, yet, we want a certain career path, which some things are necessary. So we're stuck sort of in this weird space. and we don't tend to take those opportunities. And I can tell you from my own experience that's one thing I wish I had done more of as a student was look for those opportunities earlier. It's really really important. And as you do more of those things, as Kim mentioned, you're going to start to feel more confidence in yourself and you'll notice those imposter feelings will start to dissipate and that's really important.

Visual: Slide changes to “Tips to Battle the Imposter” and includes an image of Wonder Woman in a power pose.

Audio: Christy: So, the next tip we have is related to a wonderful TED Talk, one of my absolute favorite TED Talks ever, I don't know if everyone else here is as big of a TED Talk nerd like I am, but I love them. This one from a research by Amy Cuddy, focused on body language, it's really related to our topic. You know, a lot of times when you hear about body language, it's all about, you know, what messages you send other people. But Dr. Cuddy's work is more about, what is your own body language say to yourself? You know, how does this impact you?

And, so, Dr. Cuddy really talks about how changing your posture can increase your confidence and help you to actually perform better. and, so, when you're sitting at your desk like right now or you're sitting working on your assignment or your dissertation, are you making yourself small? You know, are your legs crossed? Are you hunched over? That's what we would sort of call making small. And you don't want to do that. That posture could actually be working against you. And make you feel less confident and less capable.

And, so, you want to sit up tall. You want to sit straight. And you want to pretend to be confident. One of Dr. Cuddy's messages in this talk is about sort of faking it until you make it, until you believe it. So, she -- nice to hear you're sitting tall, love it. She talks about her own experience overcoming quite a tragedy and her feelings of not belonging in graduate school. And she also shares about how she had an advisor tell her that she was going to go do public speaking, she was going to go do everything she was asked to do and even if it scared her and she was just going to pretend. And it was years later that she realized that she didn't feel like an imposter anymore. She felt like she had gotten there. and, so, when we're talking about taking chances, that's where this sort of all ties in together, just fake it, move forward, stand tall and proud and you'll find that you start to feel a lot more confident in yourself. Someday you'll Wake up and realize that you don't feel like an imposter anymore.

And, so, this talk is really really inspiring. I know that doctoral students, you know, you have tons of free time, right, let's be honest. But if you do have a free few minutes, I highly suggest checking it out. I think you'll find it inspiring and powerful. And you might be wondering why we have Wonder Woman on the slide. Part of the study included a pose, and when the media got ahold of the research they dubbed it the Wonder Woman pose. And Dr. Cuddy suggests standing in this kind of power pose for one minute, a minute or two before going into any sort of high-stress situation. So, when you're defending your proposal. When you're writing chapter 2. When you're going for an interview. Any of those situations, take a minute or two and just do a power pose. And I think you will be really surprised how much more confident you feel after taking that time to do that. And, so, definitely incorporate this in and I think you'll start to feel that difference. Kim, do you want to add anything?

Visual: Slide changes to “Tips to Battle the Imposter” and includes links to success strategies on procrastination and productivity, as well as time management.

Audio: Kim: So we'll talk a little bit about tips to battling the imposter. So, Christy had noted earlier that procrastination is a big part of being an imposter. And I had talked about the stress and anxiety component. And how to cope with these types of things. So, you know, there are different ways of coping. Procrastination is what they call emotion-focused coping. More like a Band-Aid. So, what you want to do is instead of using it is emotion-focused coping, you want to use a problem-focused coping strategy, such as developing a plan, something to change the situation.

So, there are some links here. They're actually interactive. So they're in the Academic Skills Center, the success strategies page, I believe, that we have. and if you click on them, they'll take you to where you need to be to take a look at that. There's some stuff here on procrastination and how to get over that and be more productive and also if time management is a problem, which is a huge problem for, like, Christy was saying, graduate students, oh, yeah, you have a lot of time, actually, no, we don't, there's no way, but I'll tell you, this is some good stuff about time management. a lot of it isn't really even about not having the skill set, which a lot of you I noticed in the chat had said, I just don't feel I have the skill set to be a doctoral student or to do this dissertation, you know, whatever you're working with. It's not really about that. It's more about organization and time management. So, take a look at those links. All right. So we have a little activity for you guys.

Visual: Slide changes to “What now?” and includes an animated slide that includes the activity prompts.

Audio: Christy: Yes. This is fun stuff. So, it's not high tech or anything. We're not fancy. But I just need you to have like a piece of paper out, a PostIt note, a document on your computer, anything you can just sort of jot three things down. So just simple little things. Just a space to write something. So, the first thing we're going to write down is one strength. So, on your little note, on a PostIt note, whatever you have, go ahead and take a second and think about what's one thing you believe you're really good at, like, what's one thing you feel confident about, something that perhaps you've gotten some praise for, even though maybe you didn't believe it when you got the praise. Just take a second and think about what your strengths are and jot something down. And if you're comfortable, we'd love if you just share with us in the chat your strengths. [ pause for activity ]

Audio: Christy: So give some people some time to chat. And as you're typing, Solace, how do you overcome speaking skills? I think you just got to do it. Honestly, I mentioned in the chat, I'm nervous every time, seriously, every time I would have to present or teach face to face, anything like that is very stressful, public speaking. The more you do it, the better you feel. And, so, just put yourself in situations where you're forced to do it. I will tell you, it is a funny story, sort of embarrassing. I was so afraid of public speaking actually during my undergraduate program, that, you know, we needed a speech communication class to graduate, and I literally put it off until my final semester. I was terrified of doing it. and then I ended up teaching face to face for years on college campuses and, you know, had to public speak multiple times every week. So, the more you do it, I think you'll gain that confidence. So what are some of your strengths? Being resourceful, I think I saw being a good encourager, I love that.

Audio: Kim: Yeah.

Audio: Christy: Sort of setting your mind on things and going for it. Nice.

Audio: Kim: Organized is good.

Audio: Christy: Good. These are great strengths. Okay.

Audio: Kim: They were writing about what's hard for them, now they're writing about what they're good at. [ can't hear Kim ]

Audio: Christy: You're on to my plan. The second thing I want you to add to your list is one person, so the name of a person. and this could be someone that you feel like, you know, you could really talk to about imposter feelings, someone that you're just close with that you think would understand or maybe it's a person who inspires you, you know, is there someone who you feel like has overcome some things and has maybe gotten the teach of career that you want so you're a little bit inspired by them, just go ahead and take a second and write down one person so it could be anybody that sort of you connect with and if you're comfortable, go ahead and share that one with us in the chat. Yeah, I see a couple already. the spouse. Aleatha, I love it, he's in school, too, so I'm sure he can absolutely understand those feelings.

Audio: Kim: Angela, her daughter, that's sweet.

Audio: Christy: Um-hum. So we see some family members. Oh, good. Dr. Anya, very nice. Give folks ape second here to finish typing a little. . [ pause for typing ] Very nice, co-worker.

Audio: Kim: Great.

Audio: Christy: Good. Yeah, it can be anybody. It can be a family member, it can be a peer, you know, anyone you can connect with. You know, if you're struggling to find people that you feel like maybe you could connect with about imposter feelings, you know, there's always the virtual options, you know, I know that there are LinkedIn groups for online doctoral students and Facebook groups, too. Like you could connect in those places as well, like, if you feel like your family members might not understand that experience, those might be good places to go as well. All right.

So, our last item on your list is one goal. And, so, I want you to think about your academic sort of pursuits, what you're working on, of course, all of you, your goal is to graduate, but, you know, what other goals do you have? I want you to think about a goal that kind of scares you a little bit. So, maybe it's presenting at a conference or maybe it's getting published, what's one goal that you have for your own career or school, whatever it is, go ahead and write that down, but, again, make sure it's something that's a little intimidating to you when you think about it. And if you're comfortable, go ahead and share that with us in the chat as well. [ pause for typing ] So we have opening your own practice, that's great. Working for the CDC, publishing an article. Writing a book. Teaching. Nice.

Audio: Kim: Presenting at a conference.

Audio: Christy: Oh, Leah, that's great. Sorry, Kim, go ahead.

Audio: Kim: That's okay.
  [ Overlapping conversation ] [ Kim reading ]

Audio: Christy: I love the all caps.

Audio: Kim: Me, too, yes, defending.

Audio: Christy: Very nice. And that is a little intimidating, isn't it?

Audio: Kim: Yes. Starting a nonprofit for homeless populations. Teaching. See, there's so many great -- see, you guys are going to do great things. Please don't let the imposter inside of you keep you from doing such great things.

Audio: Christy: Absolutely, absolutely. Publish an article. Teaching young soldiers. These are fantastic. Public speaking. All right. So, why do we do all of this? Why did I just have you write these three items down? So we're going to just sort of tie this all together. You know, first, as imposters, we tend to lose sight of our own abilities and what we're good at and the things that we do well.

We lose that because we're so worried about making everything perfect and fooling people and all of those negative sort of feelings that we lose sight of the things we're good at. So having that strength written down can be pretty powerful. And it can be a reminder for you about your abilities that you have. Next, having someone that you can talk to is an important component, really, in general, to get through this program, I mean, you need that support from people and, you know, if you're dealing with these feelings, you definitely need someone who can help you, even if it's just that they understand it, right? To have that connection is really important or to have someone that inspires you, right, that can remind you that people do get through things and you can be one of those people who overcome whatever difficult experience you're having. And then, last, having a goal written down is a powerful reminder of what we want to do. As imposters, we tend to avoid those things. Again, I mentioned earlier, we don't want to experience failure, we don't want that to happen, we don't want to embarrass ourselves. We don't want to be discovered. And, so, when we try to put ourselves out there, it's very scary for us. But as we mentioned earlier, taking those chances is so important because of the more you do these things, the more confident you feel and that imposter feeling is going to go away. And, so, it's going to be uncomfortable but you just sort of have to go for it. And they can be little steps. If conference is on your list, attend one first. And get a feel for those. And then the next go-round do a poster presentation. Right? It's a little less intimidating than a full presentation. So you can take steps in that direction, but take those chances. It's incredibly important. So, take that list and post it somewhere. Somewhere near your desk. Somewhere where you write. Somewhere where you will see it all the time as a reminder that you have the abilities, you have support, and that you have this reminder of a big goal in mind.

Kim, is there anything you'd like to add?

Audio: Kim: I just would say, I remember when I was in my first residency and people were asking me -- were asking the instructors, you know, how did you get through it, how did you do it, and the instructor said that he took one of those frames that you put your degree in, and it was blank, and he put it right over his desk, so every day we would walk past it and he would look and see that empty frame, and he would say, oh, one day that's going to be filled with my doctoral degree. So I would say, while that's being, you know, empty, I would take this list, this paper, all these things, and I would put that in that frame. and I would look at that as a reminder of what I'm good at, what I've been praised for, and a person that I can talk to and a goal, and that will be there as, you know, temporarily until I make that dissertation, but I would put it somewhere also where I work, where I kind of get those feelings that are related to being an imposter, and that will kind of help me get through it and know there's an end goal in sight.

Audio: Christy: Excellent tip. Excellent.

Visual: Slide changes to “Q&A Section”

Audio: Christy: So, that is the end of our content. It looks like we have about 15 minutes or so left just to do some Q & A and chat with you some more and answer any questions you have. and, so, feel free to go ahead and type any questions in the chat box and, Kim, if there's stuff that you'd like to add here, please feel free to do jump in.

Audio: Kim: I'm just reading everybody's -- everybody's been so therapeutic with each other. Such a great discourse that we have going on here.

Audio: Christy: Um-hum.

Audio: Kim: I love it. And it's hard being in a virtual school to have that support, which is kind of why we do these conferences and these webinars.

Audio: Christy: Yeah. [ Overlapping conversation ]

Audio: Christy: Yup. and I just want to mention, and I might say your name wrong and I apologize in advance, Sorimar, you were talking about publishing and not getting it approved, it is incredibly frustrating to have that happen. And I had an article complete -- I actually had two, two articles, completely ripped apart by the peer reviewers and it was really hard to take. And I would just encourage you to keep going.

You know, you can always work with an editor to help you a little bit with the writing side, if that's where you're struggling. But don't give up on it. Keep going. And use the feedback that you get from those attempts, you know, to make improvements, and don't give up on it and just keep going. Did we miss any questions anywhere?

Audio: Kim: I don't see anything. Just a lot of comments but I don't see any questions. Which is good, we might have answered them, I know there was a lot in the beginning.

Audio: Christy: I guess I'll take a second and just say thank you to all of you for being so supportive of one another and that's what we mean by having that support system. So, you know, your peers, believe me, are experiencing this. And, so, don't be afraid to put it out there and someone will probably say, I deal with that, too, and, you know, those connections are so important. Yes, Aleatha, you're definitely not alone.

Audio: Kim: Yeah. I think we need a Facebook support group for imposter syndrome.

Audio: Christy: Yes. Solace, definitely stand tall. All right. It sounds like people are going to share e-mail addresses. That's great.

Audio: Kim: Yeah, yeah, I think I would do the Wonder Woman pose before I do my defense.

Audio: Christy: Yes, I do it before every presentation, I did it before interviews. You might feel, like, silly at first but it really does work and makes such a big difference. Imposters anonymous, I love it. That's great. Very nice. I love to see these connections being made.

Visual: Slide changes to “Closing slide” and includes information about the Academic Skills Center, including email, and monthly updates with the Savvy Student Newsletter.

Audio: Christy: Yes, thank you, everyone, for such a great conversation. This is exactly what we were hoping for.

Audio: Kim: Yeah.

Audio: Christy: Thank you for your engagement and willingness to share and we hope you got a lot out of it. So thank you.